Вот положили и 25х80ед и 25х100ед и 40х110ед. Теперь вроде понятнее кто делает 40х110ед для апм (?). Цены еще мало зеленые - попозже должны позеленеть и поменьше стать.
Заказал себе из этой серии Angeleyes 20x70 ED, на днях получил. Очень доволен бином. Правда, по звездам протестировать его пока не получилось.
Этот бин - аналог oberwerk 20x70 ed ultra, причем его самой последней версии, с улучшенными окулярами. Прошлую версию на клаудях все очень хвалили, вот например что пишет Fiske (хотя он и типа представитель оберверка от общественности клаудей, но ерунды по-моему не пишет и явной предвзятости не показывает).
https://www.cloudynights.com/forums/topic/823121-team-15x-25x/page/11/#comment-12293353The views are sharp across about 80% of the FOV. Softening can be seen from 80 to 90% of the field, but is not distracting. The outer 5-7% falls off somewhat, but is so close to the edge of the field as not to be an issue for me. The stars are bright, vibrant, and colorful, which I would list as a strength of this binocular.
It does exhibit Fuzzy Fieldstop Syndrome (FFS). I think the first Oberwerk binocular I have tried that has the issue. I find it to be an annoyance, but not a show stopper. Every APM instrument I own (7x50, 12x50, 16x70, and 20x80 ED MS) has the issue, plus additional eye positioning challenges. I guess it is a minor form of vignetting? I can still see the field stops, but a narrow, fuzzy shadow ring at the edge of the FOV obscures them somewhat. More of a concern in light polluted skies than from darker sites, perhaps. APM ED MS owners seem to accept it as a standard binocular characteristic, which amuses me. wink.gif
With regard to eye relief it is a slight improvement on the 15x70, which is perfect for me (wearing glasses) but a tight fit for most observers and unusable for many who wear eyeglasses while observing. The eyepiece lenses are recessed (as with the BA8s) so the effective eye relief is considerably shorter than the measurement from the lens surface.
I made eye relief measurements this evening with binoculars mounted, a flashlight held in position centered on the right objective, and a clip board pressed against the surface of the folded down eyecups, marking the focal point of the projected light cone on a piece of paper and then measuring the distance from the edge of the paper. Here are the measurements I recorded:
15x70 Ultra: 8mm
20x70 ED Ultra: 10mm
20x65ED: 10.5mm
10.5x70 Resolux: 17mm
https://www.cloudynights.com/forums/topic/823121-team-15x-25x/page/11/#findComment-12299133OB 20x65ED Deluxe
Best edge performance of the group (the APM 16x70 comes remarkably close). Also impeccable color correction. My issue with the 20x65ED is that the view seem dull to me and lacks sparkle. Contrast is lacking. Particularly compared with the 20x70 ED, which has remarkable contrast and brightness. Eye relief is not generous.
OB 20x70 ED Ultra
My favorite 20x views of any 20x binocular in the group last night. Bright, vivid, with excellent contrast and sharpness (in the center of the field). Despite the 10mm aperture advantage of the x80s, the 20x70 is right there with them in brightness, perhaps even a bit brighter in the center of the FOV somehow. It is also remarkably sharp in the center of the FOV. The edge performance is slightly better than the 20x80 DIII, slightly behind the APM 20x80, and not even close to that of the APM 16x70 or the 20x65ED. It is still good enough not to be distracting. The fuzzy field stop thing is more noticeable to me, honestly, and comparing it with the other OB binoculars (which have sharp field stops) it is a conspicuous difference. Both APM binoculars are similar in this respect -- fuzzy field stops. Still, given its many fine attributes, this one issue is something I can easily forgive. wink.gif Eye relief slightly better than 20x65ED.
OB 20x80 DIII
This is a remarkably sharp binocular that delivers pleasing star images. Minimal smearing/flare was seen observing Jupiter with it -- less than any of the other 20x instruments. It does exhibit conspicuous CA observing Jupiter, however, to the point of being distracting. It came in fourth on edge performance, behind the other instruments in the comparison. The edge performance is still adequate, however. Reasonably sharp to 70% of the FOV, anyway. Best bang for the buck in this group. Reasonable eye relief.
APM 20x80 ED MS
A bright, sharp, likeable binocular. My enthusiasm for it is tempered by spikiness on brighter stars (which others have also reported) and the fuzzy field stop issue. The edge performance is good -- ahead of the 20x80 DIII, slightly ahead of the 20x70, but behind the 16x70 and 20x65ED. Generous eye relief.
APM 16x70 ED MS
It is hard to directly compare this instrument with the 20x70 ED because of the magnification difference. Looking at the Double Cluster in Perseus, for example, more detail can be seen with the 20x70. But, the 16x70 is bright, sharp, and has a wider field with decidedly better edge performance. Sharp to 95% of the FOV. Unlike the APM 20x80, the star shapes are good with minimal spikes and etc. on brighter stars. Generous eye relief. This is a superb binocular. Hard to beat at its price point. Optically, the Maven b.5 15x56 is a step up, and somehow contrives to appear similarly bright despite the APM aperture advantage. I rate the 20x70 sharper in the center of the field of view.
Here is a recent favorite double of mine, near the Navi (the center bright star in the Cassiopeia "W" asterism).
ARG 3
00h57m +60*20'
8.51/9.41 20.7" pa 200*
I compared views of this double with the four 20x instruments, and the 20x70 ED Deluxe was easily my favorite. Surprising, really, how much nicer the double looked with it. I could see and resolve the double with all four binoculars. With the 20x65ED, however, it was on the dim side and the deep orange colors of the double star while seen were not vibrant. The view was better with either of the 80x binoculars, but somehow the x70 outperformed them -- the double was bright, cleanly resolved, with vibrant color. The difference was subtle, but definite.
And another famous double, that is a good test for 20x binoculars.
Achird / Eta Cass / STF 60
00h50m +57*55'
3.45/7.52 13.5" 326.3*
This double is a challenge because of the significant magnitude difference between the primary and secondary, given the modest separation of 13.5". The primary is warm white, with perhaps a yellowish tint. The secondary is a deep reddish copper, sometimes said to be a brownish red. I could just barely glimpse the secondary with the 16x70. I could resolve it with the APM 20x80, though it was a difficult observation because of spikes from the primary. The 20x70 ED gave a superb optics performance with this double, cleanly resolved with the secondary color evident. Note: a visual treat with the Kowa Highlander or the Oberwerk 82XL at 32x. wink.gif
So there you have it. Last night the 20x70 ED topped the 20x field. smile.gif
One thing I have come to realize, however, is that one's perspective on a given binocular can shift over time, as it is used to observe in various contexts and for different types of objects. Additional comparison reports will be provided from time to time. At present, I rank the 20x70 ED as my favorite 20x binocular. We will see if that rating holds up.
В общем, описание очень обнадеживающее. Также, в дальнейших обсуждениях (уже 2025 года) Фиске упоминал, что у него по-видимому старая модель OB 20x70 EDU, в новой глазные линзы окуляров менее утоплены в корпусе окуляра, что позволило увеличить вынос зрачка. В новую версию он не смотрел. На сайте оберверка и на продажных фотках от Angelayes намешаны фото как с утопленными линзами, так и с неутопленными в общем путаница. Судя по тому, что я получил под названием Angeleyes, это уже новая версия. В ней, во-первых, глазная линза не утоплена. Во-вторых, граница входной диафрагмы окуляра очерчена очень резко. И, в третьих, поле более ровное, чем описывал Фиске, хотя и не настолько плоское по краю, как у SRBC (с другой стороны, нет "кольца снижения резкости" на 2/3 поля, как у SRBC.
Помимо отчета Фиске, на клаудях довольно много самых положительных отзывов об этом бине.
Мои впечатления пока также очень положительные. Что больше всего удивило, я не нашел в своем экземпляре никаких косяков. Ни пятен пасла, ни пузырьков. Уж пр то, что коллимация у чисто китайской версии с 20 кратным увеличением будет сбита, я был уверен. Но она идеальна! КТо знает, может мне просто повезло.
Из недостатков я бы отметил два: во-первых, заметно ухудшается картинка при смещении зрачка глаза относительно выходного зрачка. Аналогичный эффект есть в SkyRover (APM) 10x50MS ED, но там он немного менее выражен, возможно в связи с вдвое меньшим увеличением. ВО-вторых, присутствует вуаль от очень ярких объектов вне поля зрения ночью. Но она меньше, чем у того же SkyRover (APM) 10x50MS ED.
В общем, по-моему очень достойный бин, хотя конечно надо понимать его область примерения, все-таки больше 2 кг веса и увеличение 20 крат. В руках можно наблюдать, особенно если на что-то опереться, но по-хорошему смотреть надо конечно на штативе. Цена очень привлекательна.
Так что если задумываетесь о таком бинокле, я бы посоветовал брать. Особенно учитывая что он может недолго попребывать на озоне по такой хорошей цене. Например, шикарнейший бин Eyeskey 6,5x32, который я там успел купить за 18 тыр, довольно быстро пропал и сейчас продается уже только по "официальной" цене 30-36 тыр.
